"No Steeple, Just People"


Negative Responses to the "Apology"
(Click here to read the Positive ones)

NOTE:  Some of you might notice your email quoted here without your permission. Please understand, other people need to hear these things. I'm phenomenally blessed to hear them, but others should be to.  (I didn't write the Apology out of my own power, I was just being obedient to what God put on my heart.)

I've scrubbed out email addresses or anything personal or identifying where necessary. And for every SINGLE one here, there are DOZENS that come in just like it!! Please forgive me if I've overstepped and understand my heart. We shouldn't hide the pain anymore.

Doug

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From Al

I read most of the articles on your web site today.

Have you ever asked yourself why you take up various causes? What is your true motive?

You will probably have to ask Jesus to explain to you, your real motives. It isn't what first leaps to your mind. If you get the real answer, it will be an awakening. It will be the first step in a long road to discover yourself. Something that is vital to a deeper relationship with God.

Almost all of your conclusions and opinions come from the mind of reason. They are superficial because they do not deal with the real forces that shape this world. Instead, the opinions are based upon human understanding.

John, in quoting Jesus, said that worship of God must be in spirit and truth. Don't gloss over the dynamics of that concept. What does it mean to worship in truth? (By the way, only John makes this quote.)

Al

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{Doug's Response}

Hi Al,

Now, please understand, I mean this in the most loving possible way. 

HUH? 

I have no intention of trying to "discover" myself! In fact, I don't even want there to be any of "myself" left. I turned it all over to God and said I'd do whatever He wanted and this is what I got. I'm just trying to be obedient every day.

If the arguments seem superficial it's because the people have been dumbed down so much that we require remedial education. It's not enough to just talk about the eternal struggle between good and evil that happens behind the scenes. People need to see the consequences of that warfare in the "natural". We can see the side effects of the warfare in the current pitiful state of the visible church (as a whole). I'm pointing out the damage caused in the natural by us having ignored the supernatural.

Other than that, I'm not even sure what you're trying to say. There's a difference between knowledge and wisdom. I'm trying to inflict maximum damage on the enemy in as short a time as possible. That's going to require rallying those already prepared and training those who are willing but green. That requires wisdom. I'm a soldier following the battle plan as laid out by my Commander. I don't have time for too much thinking - that's what got us into this mess.

I just don't see it as being that complicated. Acknowledge Him, submit, beg to hear His voice as clear as you can, repent, hear what He wants and GO DO IT - then give Him alone the credit. It's all in the Lord's Prayer.

I am what I am because HE made me. I have ZERO desire to delve into the mystery that is "me". I just do as I'm told.

Doug

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{AL'S RESPONSE}

Thanks for your reply. Unfortunately, it was what I had expected. But, I was hoping otherwise.

It is so sad that often those who believe they are doing something for the Lord, don't really understand the deception they are under. What's equally sad is that deception has many levels and it will justify itself.

Never are the deceived, so deceived, as when it involves religious matters!

Al

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{DOUG'S SECOND RESPONSE}

Sorry, Al.

Gotta do what I gotta do. Either it's God talking to me or it's not. If it's of man it's gonna fail anyway and you can smugly watch me go down in flames. If it's of God, folks probably ought to think twice before fighting against it. Good advice from Gamaliel.

Wish I could slow down to argue it all out with you, but I'm fighting a war here. I guess I'll just take my chances at the final judgement.

Doug

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Doug's Side Commentary to TCOL:

Regarding Al,

Listen folks, this is the lie from the pit. "Figure yourself out. Find you inner purpose. What's your motivation? What makes you tick."

Most of this email I can't even make sense of. But I'm just NOT going to get suckered into it!

We're to be a living sacrifice (Rom. 12). The SACRIFICE itself doesn't get to decide ANYTHING. The sacrifice lays there on the altar and GOD decides what to do with us. If we turn over everything, He will very quickly help us to: STOP CONFORMING TO THE WORLD, then He will transform us by the renewing of our minds, so that we can know HIS will and DO IT. That's all there is to it.

DON'T get suckered into these fights! YOUR personal "purpose" doesn't matter a flying fig. Find out what GOD wants and then DO IT. No more messing around with psychobabble. 


{From Brian}

While I understand your intentions, this kind of statement, no matter how true some facts may be, in the end, rarely brings about anything other then a mocking laugh from "the world". Also, even the best criticizers and challengers of churchianity within the church eventually tire, being isolated and considered fringe elements, hurt and bittered by the devil, and the church. I've seen person after person face this.

Jesus challenged and provoked the religious status quo, but did not become critical of it. He rose to a higher purpose (to send the gospel to the gentiles, the world) and position (seated at the right hand)

My suggestion is that you take Christ's lead and become the model of non-churchianity and even come together with others that feel the same and start another church. Only new churches that embody the real Christ have an impact and help change individuals and churches.

While you may want to take the opportunity to preach back to me, I do hope you take some time to chronicle your positions and the percieved impact your having. Look at the impact over the next 10 or 20 years and then compare it to the word and see if your ministry had value. It will be real clear then.

Take Care

Brian

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{MY RESPONSE}

Thanks, Brian.

The fact that others have fought and lost is no excuse to stop fighting. The fact that I might not win is no excuse to stop fighting. The fact that there will always be someone somewhere mad at you is no excuse to stop fighting. The fact that the world might laugh is no excuse to stop fighting.

I don't want to start a church. I want people to fill themselves and the churches we already have with JESUS. And not settle for anything less. What do you want for them?

Always good advice to journal and think back and see what impact we've had. I'd take you up on that - writing everything down for 10 or 20 years - but I'll be dead way before then.

Doug


{Unsigned}

It's good to say what we aren't supposed to be, but where is the standard of what we ARE supposed to be. That is the mark of a true prophet!

Are we not doing anything right? Did Jesus Himself as well as Paul say that we were to get some reward from following Him? I think so!!!

Not everyone is CALLED to be a martyr in the sense of living destitute for the Kingdom. Big churches often are doing more than small churches. And sometimes you do have to look at the percentages as well as the intangible assets.

Most Christians are not living that much different from the world BECAUSE that IS the world they live in and that is HOW they reach others.

Can we do more? Always! Just like we can always pray more - so what is the standard.

I get tired of being put down by the self righteous who give no standards for me to say, "Maybe I am on the right track!"

The world is not just the poor guy on the street corner - we should help him, but the world is the world! And we are to reach it. There are a lot of ministry styles I like and many I don't. But guess what, when you take a poll, not every one's tastes and styles are the same. Don't factor that out.

Many are doing MUCH MORE than you are giving them credit for. Do we need to work on it? Sure! But change comes by His Spirit. Not by just another voice of authority that criticizes everyone else.

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{MY RESPONSE}

Hi,

First, that letter was to the "World" - NOT to the church. That was an APOLOGY, not purely a lecture on what the RIGHT thing is.

Second, that other stuff you're asking about is on the website and more is coming. www.TheChurchOfLiberty.com   Particularly see the Declaration of War and the Battle Plan.

This is a big problem, we're not going to fix it in one email, particularly an email that wasn't aimed at YOU.

Prophets don't consider individual cases. Hosea didn't say "just the bad ones are going into captivity". Everybody stands condemned, including the righteous remnant that should have been trying harder to stop the bleeding.

If we're ONE Body, then we need to look at our success or failure in those terms. We have sliced the body up into 33,000 sections. Necessary and complementary organs aren't talking to each other. Blood isn't flowing to the extremities. We're dying. There's no other conclusion.

Nobody is saying martyrs are to be destitute. Where'd you get that? We are to offer our bodies as living sacrifices, we are to be willing to crucify little pieces of ourselves everyday, we are to grow up into Him who is the Head, we are to pour ourselves out as a drink offering so that HE can be poured in. That's the nature of martyrdom. And EVERY SINGLE Christian should be willing to do so - that's our spiritual act of worship commensurate with the mercy He's shown us. It's all there in Romans 12.

A person that says they are a Christian but that isn't willing to do so is saying that they aren't willing to BE like Christ, but are willing to use His name. They should be encouraged or else ignored - but never made a leader.

Take a look around the website before you dismiss it so easily. This is the word that needs to be spoken.

Doug


 


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